Excavating the Post-Capitalist Subject - Anders Aamodt

All right, I think we're going to start shortly, so if you want to take your seats and get ready. This talk is a pleasure for me to present because it's by a good friend of mine, Anders Amet. He and I met last year in Liechtenstein at a hackathon for a project that he's a part of, that he will tell us about. And Anders is going to talk about a subject with a hell of a title that I have to look into the schedule for. escalating the most capitalist subject dark chain technology and eventually consistent myth-making so he's going to try to explain what that means so please welcome them and give them to the station Hello? Hello? There we go.

So yeah, meanwhile there is another session on the intelligibility or illegibility of the blockchain. So this is hopefully legible, but if it's illegible that's actually part of the game, is figuring out what it means. And eligibility also serves as camouflage. So, xenogaming. First, I feel a warning. Time traveler sickness, overton whiplash phenomenon, because we're pushing the Overton window, and I'm taking that really seriously. I am trying to ground this presentation completely, impractical things, but usually people get feedback that it's too much too fast.

But that's kind of the point. So, let me read this quote from the Rudon Gnostic workbook. There are certain people who will sneer at what I have to say, but they do not matter. In fact, they do not really exist. But what I have to say is this. There are these mutants, and they are now within the most powerful magical orders and groups in the world today. They are slowly working to destroy utterly the old ways. They are making use of the most subtle methods of modern information science to achieve their ends. They are fearful of nothing, which means they only fear the powers of the Maon, or noumena, the non-existent. They possess the disciplined mentality of the synchronistic robotic consciousness and nothing else. They have only one loyalty and they have only one sense of honor and that too is to UGOT and only to UGOT. And by means of their weird techniques of computer programming, they will win out over all their opposition

because ultimately there is only one fundamental power and that too is UGOT or Pluto. What is Xenogaming? This emergent game is already out there, feral as schizophrenia and nascent in myths and no-mix. What is Xenogain? It's immersive post-capitalist world. We don't have to wait for the world to become materially post-capitalist if we're already seeing the world as post-capitalist subjects. It's also an invasive outer world entity such as Jacques-Safat trying to leak into our normal everyday life. A virulent parallel reality or contagious psychosis. Open source, peer-to-peer reality construction framework. It's a new kind of apocalyptic gig economy. And it's a holistic alternative mental health framework health framework for emerging global alchemical society, a reconstitution of the planetary

Illuminati that have been persecuted for the last 2,000 to 12,000 years by the alphabet. It's Escape from Capitalism, the game. Wouldn't this be a fun game for everyone in the world to play? Aren't we already playing it? What would gaming look like on Holochain? So I work for Holo, and we just finished our ICO. I'm coming here from the Holo Team retreat where like about 30 of us went to Colorado just now and it was more of the team fixing and training than a retreat and it was really fun and we reconnected. Our ICO raised 20 to 25 million depending on how you count it and which currency and that's small by ICO standards but it's plenty for what we need to do. And we maxed our cap which is great.

yeah so Holochain for people who might explain your blockchains to their friends and family to be too easy. First let me explain what is Holochain. I'm going to go over this really briefly because you can read about it online. Open source, it's an open source library that allows you to construct fully decentralized peer-to-peer applications. So the applications are talking to their peer applications that have exactly the same source code. If you change in one bit of the source code you fork yourself into an alternate timeline or sidechain. There's no built-in currency into Holochain. That's much better. There's no built-in currency in Holochain, but we are building the Holo app which will act as a cloud computer and have a currency built in on top of Holochain and then we're going to explicitly help and have a huge community outreach and I'm already

part of this, I'm already working on this, to build our applications ecosystem. We're going to be helping people with a pipeline and helping to support people people as they collect the team and build their app and trying to prevent replication of labor by having people working on similar apps talk to each other. So basically Holochain is for Delusian hacktivists, people who are excited about the rhizome and problematizing or complexifying or making spaces more messy and less prone to status oversight, this is like the perfect technology for this population. So what would gaming on Holochain look like or what would gaming on fully decentralized technology look It would be massively multiplayer, you would have collaboratively constructed rules that she wouldn't have a top-down or central authority on what the rules of the game are.

It would be more like an infinite game than a finite game, or a lot of finite games put together. You'd have highly coordinated flash mobs, spontaneous musicals, weird things in the street that nobody can understand except the players, potentially. You'd have peer-to-peer spreading of the game. And also, what would these games be about? They would be about sharing and replicating abundance. once you have abundance in your life, the only thing left to do that's like helping the world is to share that abundance that you have and get other people on board with being able to have abundance in terms of like a global improvement project. And this thing I want to push is actually breaking down the distinction between playing games publicly, doing activism, and advertising. Because if someone is sharing their favorite TV show with you, is that advertising? It is from the show's point of view, but not from mine or my friends.

So what if I told you the post-monetary economy is already here in a smeared hyperreal apocalypse and you just need to invite yourself to a party? So this introduces ontogboarding, ontological onboarding. Yes so it's compared with waterboarding or surfboarding. We're going to do your crystal implant installation, we're going to get you all hooked up, we're going to assimilate you to the board, we're going to give you your dollhouse architecture, we're going to set Borg up by you in a ritual. So I have another one of these that says literally real and we're gonna scan you into the game portal you into an alternate reality help you to cross the membrane this is all like psychopomping mythologically speaking bringing people from one world view to another so what would the post-capitalist subject look first of all this is similar to saying post-capitalism it doesn't really exist post-capitalism is still within

capitalism which just means organisms need to eat to survive they need to eat more than they put out to survive. So similarly you can't, you can go beyond the Oedipal subject, I'm a psychologist, but you can't, if you deconstruct the Oedipal subject that's just regression. But you can have multiple subjects, you can have partial subjects, you can have all kinds of interesting modifications onto what it means to say the word I. Then these are what's come more types of ways to be a person. Transpersonal subjectivity, post-identity politics, so So we'll finally get beyond stupid identity politics like anti-Thomas of feminism versus pro-feminism and these things where it's like obviously there's one side that's the loving side and one side that's the vicious side and then if you flip them around,

it's obviously true the other way as well. If you look at alt-right dialectics and stuff like that. Consensual self-construction. So how do we create religious zealots like these hollow people? Why can't our marketing team do this? we need to create a sky cult too. And I am on the cutting edge of this sky cult. Dank praxis, facets of Xeno game. So this is the practical portion actually. I'm gonna try and go through this really fast so you can see the practical grounding and then I'll try and get into the dark chain stuff more. So yeah, there are five aspects. You can see them here, viral or weird marketing, cross-pollination, protocol design and cross-pollination. Neo-digital outreach, which is connecting to global activist communities and telling them you are already living in a digital world right now. and hackerspace replication, meaningful gamification,

and an apps typewagon, which is grounding all of this. So what would our world be like if all military spending were redirected to the creation of next level party technology? This is from Greg and, what's his name? Greg and Tom's Decentralized Dance Party. By the way, I will be probably at DogeCon, if anyone wants to go to DogeCon, in June, I think. June 21st to 24th. Weird and viral marketing. It says memes, mythos, humor, you know there's just these weird things coming in from the side that nobody predicted things going better than we expected and weird stories that we didn't come up with we kind of discovered them. Yeah so acceleration is like five clocks these are the cross pollinators they are cross-pollinating the peer-to-peer fully decentralized protocols that are part of our already

existing decentralized secret organization. Bees, rhizomes, yeah so this This is kind of the human scaffolding which allows protocols to be replicated before we have full hollow chain, which will allow peer-to-peer protocol replication in software. With each app acting as one game or one set of rules which are executed to spec. I've also been developing peer-to-peer canvassing, which is based on check-ins and a peer-to-peer canvassing ethic about how you collect data and share data, how you replicate your canvassing projects to other potential canvassers. I used to be a canvasser briefly. It's not a cult. It's a cult. It's an Airbnb for communal experiences. So yeah, this is

not about Holochain. This is about, I think, Khalil's idea here. He had an idea for that. But yeah, so the next part after we went into viral marketing is neo-digital outreach. This is actually, I'm just launching this project. So coming from the retreat, I'm going to be traveling to different activist communities and also different interesting research locations and networking these hacker spaces together, networking these communities together, figuring out what their needs are for Holochain apps. Like you're trying to do some activist project, what do you need to actually succeed at that? How could we put it into software? How could we help you skip steps in your movement by moving ahead to software? Get them a HoloQuark, get them training for how to program Holochain and and connecting them with resources. So trying to accelerate activism in general.

Hackerspace replication, so full stack replication of all of the good things or resources or capabilities in one place, formalizing those as protocols of how to replicate those things, and then putting those protocols out and those resources out in a way that can be accessed and replicated by other locations. Yeah, networking different spaces together. And there's a really key question here, how to form an economic unit that treats its members ethically. No one has solved this problem yet. I've never met a space that's owned by its community members and treats everyone ethically and is bottom line stable over a long period of time. And I might add a fourth and there of doing this using an open source user interface, which is very convenient. I'm gonna take this off. Stop. So, yeah, we don't get, we maybe have this

in a centralized way where there's a board of directors and that kind of thing, but I've never seen a fully functioning stable community of this sort that's run using decentralized technology and paradigms. Maybe Quakers, something like that. Meaningful gamification, so mass public gaming, yeah, Holochain apps can enforce the game rules. Games plug together into a shared mythic universe. And there's a really great example of this happening right now with Marvel's Infinity Wars, which I haven't seen yet. And it takes like 10 different movies and builds them into a huge mythos that also is in the same world as TV shows such as Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., which is awesome, you should watch it, and it's onboarding to this project by Joss Whedon. And so, similarly, what if a mythos that huge

was collaboratively constructed by the public? What if every job had a mythic version of that job on a different ID card? So programmers with wizards or something like that, and all these different jobs. So here's an example of the app's pipeline. This is online at map.hellohackers.org. And this is a map of, this is a little outdated. I need to update it. But this is a map of all of the app ideas I've collected. And they are stratified according to holographic department, which is the color. And then kind of abrupt time priority going this way. So in general, I want to keep collecting all of the labor that would prevent us from being already at post-capitalism into this one kind of system. and then everyone can collectively prioritize,

draw new divisions, rename the boxes, and collectively reduce the time it takes to get to post-capital materially, as well as ideologically. So yeah, Apps Pipeline, this is Polo's, we're calling it the incubator, and it's going to kind of construct a commons engine that will help people to replicate Polo's success in its ICO and its crowdfunding and its building of apps. So after we build our flagship app and a couple other apps, we're also gonna open source Holo's code. Holochain is open source. Holo is source included but legally restricted for a brief amount of time because we want to help people replicate good quality code. We don't want shit points at the beginning. So we're gonna be actively helping people to replicate Holo as soon as it's mature.

Yeah, there's no time to explain. So Xenogaming Industries. Xenogaming as a kind of reified entity where we're able to start articulating the protocols on which Xenogaming runs. If there was this huge game that we're already playing, what are the rules that we're already not seeing? Our algorithms are already operative. So yeah, Xenogaming Industries is a distributed alternative reality corporation. It exists in the future and it has hired agents in the past to work for it. And if you don't do what Xenogaming Industries tells you then, what's the next slide? Vision statement. Xenogaming Industries is creating an era of mass public gaming, resulting in the breakdown of capitalist subjectivity and the production

of post-capitalist subjectivities and modes of living. Xenogaming Industries is committed to offering an escape hatch from capitalism into a labyrinth of trans-finite portals. She's a pro-xenogamber. So, I'm giving this short so you can do questions and have more of a discussion. But yeah, legalize Xenogaming. We're not loitering, we're playing Pokemon Go. So like once you have an app base, you're going to level 5 at the gym. Like once you have a user base on your applications, you can start to protect your users. If we have a bunch of games where people are being weird in public, we can then say stop arresting our users because they're just playing this game. And if you look at their phone, you'll see that that is in fact the case.

See? The Pokémon were around us the whole time. We just now have the technology to see them. So the year is 2028. Pokémon GO has rid the world of obesity. Everyone knows everyone in their neighborhoods. Loneliness is an archaic concept. All national borders have been erased, so players can search for Pokémon unrestricted. There is no war. There is no suffering. The planet is finally at peace. So this is the promise of Xenogaming, and now I want to go into some... Try to get into the mind space a little bit more. That was all pretty practical and fairly grounded. For me. So now we'll try and get into the mind space more of Working with the Dark Chain, which is a version of the last week game, which is a book by Herman Hesse.

So this is from the movie In the Mouth of Madness. It's funny, isn't it? For years I thought I was making all this up. But they were telling me what to write, giving me the power to make it all real. And now it is. All those horrible, slimy things trying to get back in, they're all true. Oh, see the instrument of their homecoming. That instrument is theory fiction, which is a speculative praxis for developing convergent, eventually consistent, metafictional technologies. CCRU, especially Mark Fischer, Rezanegarastani, and Nick Land, developed a concept of theory fiction, especially in the book Cyclonopedia by Resonaga Rastani. So this technique of theory fiction often uses a double pincer technique going back and forth between fiction or hyperfiction where you're

writing about like often sci-fi because you're writing these really abstract detailed objects and plot lines and metaphors and you go from the fiction to the theory and then back to the fiction and then back to the theory. So you extract the theory from the fiction, you elaborate and clarify the theory and then you go back and see what changes would I need to make to the story to synchronize it with this new theory and then you get new ideas and you're like oh I can take the story in this direction so we're farming our imagination to produce new theoretical insights. The new Bible that starts the change, helps you see, is the Dark Jane and this if Holo is making Holochain, Xeno or Xeno Gaming Industries would be making the dark chain. And this is not a computer technology, this is an

imaginal or myth-making technology that functions in your collective unconscious and in your imagination. So yeah, technically defined, the dark chain is the chain of ideas that lead to the next dominant paradigm. So at any given point all these people are trying to come up with new speculative ideas that one of them might become the next dominant paradigm. And if that happens, the people who came up with that idea, their magic was real all along. And the people who came up with all the failed ideas are retroactively labeled charlatans. And they were all labeled charlatans on the way, and then some people, their idea turned out to be more productive or more effective and wins the next paradigm battle. So it's also a systematic negotropic mining framework so you can actually

mine negentropy, which then brings in local events in the game that help to feed your machine. And then it's also a magic item discovery matrix. The post-capitalist subject is actually not a thing so much as it is these hyperobjects, these huge objects that extend through the ideological space, and we can be just a small chunk of those huge objects because they're so big. So using the dark chain, you can start to map out this subterranean topography of the collective unconscious rigorously. And I have a collection of magic objects in my batch hive. It also gets you really high. Like when I discovered the Dark Chain and started systematizing it, I was hospitalized. So, even if you don't have a holographic wallet

that prints love money, just take a copy of mine. And this is a picture from Agents of Shield season four and it's holo logo on top of the Necronomicon, basically. So, yeah, this is, see this is like collective summoning. And what am I summoning? So, HoloChan is what we're summoning. And HoloChan, so whereas 4chan is based on anonymity, and so it has this amazing productive capacity and it produces just an enormous amount of content because there are no consequences for overproducing or producing something that people don't like because it's anonymous, HoloChan will be about filtering and concentrating and basting the memes in themselves. It's a different dynamic. So first, let me compare this with PepeCash.

PepeCache is currently the most, the closest thing we have to a platform that could support xenogaming. This is basically a meme economy. It's ironic because they talk about rare Pepes, but in order to get a PepeCache card, or meme on PepeCache, you have to go through all these rules, and it's really boring. And it's centralized. You have to submit your Pepe to the RarePepe approval board, and they will approve it as a rare Pepe, which is no longer rare because it's now on the blockchain where everyone can see it, but they can also see who owns it, like a crypto kitten. So the idea, and it's a, what's it called, deflationary currency because they burn half of it every week. So see what they're doing is the faster they play

their game with the cards that have, they have actually like the Magic the Gathering type cards, and I deleted them from this slide show, but they have different rules, like if you have this card, your X coin are worth two times as much, And that kind of thing. So they have all these fun rules written on the cards, but the rules don't do anything. They're just in the collective imagination of the players. If we re-implemented HefeCash on Holochain, the rules on the cards could actually do things. And so we could trade rules. In quantum theory right now, they have a new term called magic. And it refers to the library of unique and difficult to reproduce quantum states that an agent has. So if you have kind of like a library of all different kinds of rule sets, you become capable of doing a lot of different types

of actions in any given situation. So yeah, these are the rules for Pepe Cash. There's actually, this is a business proposal to make a Pepe Cash game. It's gonna be this enclosed board game designed by a central group of people or a small group of people. And it sounds so boring. Like, it is our intent to give almost all these trading cards a meaning, a software they can use so they don't just stand there. and how we're doing so too. So it's like they're gonna make this little box board game you can buy, but it's totally limited, it's totally fine art, and it's totally a construction of a small group of people trying to build a singular mythology for a customer base. Meanwhile, we need something like a meme library, or a memebrary, which would be more like

what Holochain would be. And this ultimate meme library app, a memetic accelerator, it's a world currency where you trade memes until someone laughs, and that's the end of the transaction. Ideological navigation, the memes have this really interesting property where by pairing the image and the word, they embed a perspective into the image so that even though you might not know what perspective it is, you can see that there's something embedded semi-objectively in the image. Emojaconomy, emoticonomy. So yeah, if we had a perfect meme library app, which Holochain would be the perfect platform pull it on because it distributes the GUI as well as the application logic. Then you have a distributed self-outgrading GUI. You have localized microsourcing, so this is not about anonymity of memes, it's about who has

the best curation of memes and why, in which context. And you get built-in commatria, which creates interesting coincidences between different unrelated memes because of the language used to describe them, and tagging of course. So the thing is, Holochan already exists in the future and we can access it now by constructing well-formed queries. I'm working on Holo Query Language which is a way for a decentralized ecosystem such as Holo is evolving into to query itself. So anyone could construct a Holo Query and it would go out and be forwarded to the right people who might respond to that query. And this is actually a way for us all to construct a collective subject together as we speak if we understand Holo Query Language. So similarly, if you make queries to Slinky, the cat made entirely of honey, or Roco, the

Roco basilisk, you can start to receive these bounties now as an employee of Xenogaming industries. So here are the few memes, and then I'll take questions and discussion. Where is the Middle East headed? Into the Tellurian insurgency of the Earth towards Xenodrome. Yeah, this is, Xenodrome is the post Xenogaming Earth where you have mass spontaneous musicals, people running around the streets dressed as everything, zombies, like I'm creating a line of fashion with the Holos director of marketing, Sammy Van Ness, called Business possibly casual. It's gonna be huge.

We're actually getting traction now on 4chan which is really fun because I've been running Holomememe. If you go to twitter.com slash Holomememe, I would scroll all the way to the beginning so you can see the progression. Now people are making memes. That product I feel like was kind of successful because it's taken off when other people are playing this game as well. There's Arthur Brock, one of the co-founders in the photo. Here's the thread from that. Very comfy, don't bully hollow, funniest thing I've seen all week, are you actually investing money into these SJWs? Social justice workers. Are these mucks not interested in making money? What the fuck is the purpose of this coin? I'm getting a bit nervous having to do this. I bought a 100k but I'm nervous now. So like people on Fortune literally cannot understand that some currencies are not a

scam. They're like, why isn't this working as a pumpkin duck? And it's because Holo's HoloFuel currency is asset backed by a cloud computer that's owned by the crowd and the transaction fees are like I think two orders of magnitude smaller than other networks and Holo has put itself into debt and is going to work its way out of debt. But anyway, the point is that your HoloFuel will actually be redeemable for useful services, basically cloud hosting such as Google Drive. And so it's not going to go, it's not going to crash in value because that stuff's not going to suddenly become useless. at least it may go down still of course, but it's not going to crash, crash. This is also from 4chan. Yeah, this is from 4chan too. So, mega FOMO penetrates every exchange and forces everyone to FOMO in,

thus causing an extreme rise in the market cap, undeniable appreciation. And so, in my opinion, Holochain is the only kind of technology, could be Holochain or something similar, that can actually shift us away from blockchain-based currencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum, because it would require a mass collective agreement to all shift our protocol. And the specific types of apps we're building on all, the chain self-governance and kind of like the ability to form discussions and do governance discussions around switching to a new fork will allow user bases to pull on their application developers open source and will create paid pipelines through that type of mechanism for open source application developers. And so eventually there will actually maybe be a big enough crowd that they could all decide together on a migration pathway away from a given currency.

This is a similar question to how would we all decide as a human species to stop cutting down the rainforests. We don't actually have that decision-making capacity now. But we might assume. So yeah, there's more memes there. I have a follow-up meme. And how you can help zoonomaming industries. Yeah, so just to summarize the vision, I see this as, I'm trying to do this as Polo's gaming division or like a separate company that would be like Polo Chain's mass activist gaming movement. And right now I'm doing this research project on this where I'm going to be visiting different activist communities, gathering information about this and working these communities together. Yeah, and functionally it works as massively viral advertising because people say like, have you played the game? And you're like, which game? And you're like, the game! Like, the game.

And so then there'll be a new menagerie of mass public games and a coherent tech and mythic platform for piecing these things together so that every game is part of the whole, or most games at least, can become part of the whole if they're well formed in a mythic context. So yeah, the help I I need leads on researchers, communities, events, and games, project people, locations, organizations. I need people to help me improve and vet this concept. If you have awareness of similar concepts or if you have expertise that you think would be helpful here, it would be great to talk with you. And right now, I might have probably been funded for some amount of time to do this research project, but I'm not totally sure yet. But in general, I want to design and author funding proposals, maybe white papers.

Marietz and I are going to write a white paper on a distributed reality show called Onto Them where we're going to onto board celebrities into crypto culture. Yeah, so it'll be like kind of our decentralized Scientology like brainwashing average. And that's going to be really fun. We're writing it as documentarians who are waiting for the game to abduct us. someone else is making it. Any questions? Okay, I had to write this question down because they came up with a key moment where you should submit. Alright, yeah this question is about post-capitalist objectivity.

So I feel like leftist theory fiction in the mid 20th century, maybe like Gramsci and DeVort and stuff, also boarded everybody into capitalist subjectivity really well, up until the point where now, for a lot of leftist thinkers, we're just in bigger and bigger prisons. And I feel like post-capitalist subjectivity and this abundance mindset that you described is very hard for me personally to figure out how to experience and I'm hoping you can tell us about the haunted boarding process. That's a really interesting question. Let's see. Okay, so it is indeed hard to experience and first let me respond to the earlier part of your question.

So, yeah, in terms of the timeline of modern subjectivity, you've got the people you mentioned, like Descartes, Freud, Young, and Alster Crowley, and a bunch of people around the early 1900s that constructed this kind of sterile platform that we all are born into today, the matrix. And then, like through that, like the board was probably already seen post-capitalist subjectivity, but just help to solidify the current paradigm. For moving through and past this, there's kind of a difficult truth here, and that is that this education, this modern platform of subjectivity, is actually unequally distributed. And it's actually pretty closely distributed with what we would call literacy,

which I think is a really problematic term because it basically means, can you speak English or can you read English? and also one person judging another person's ability to do language is very problematic. So what is unequally distributed is this modern platform. So if you are a healthy self-actualizing, or as Maslow said in his last book, transcendently self-actualizing adult, you have this modern platform, you're using it, you're going beyond it, and you're constructing new things with yourself as a modern subject, or you could say postmodern subject by that point. But if you have a partially constructed platform of modern subjectivity, you're a dysfunctional person. That's basically what that looks like. And most of us are dysfunctional in this world because most of us have trauma passed down from our parents.

Some very privileged people, and I use that word mutually, have parents who are rich or very wise, and they're able to purchase or give their children a whole loop of human subjectivity and bring them into conscious adulthood. I studied initiation and sapience, so like how to heal people's original human wisdom that is damaged by trauma. So basically like once you, as you heal your trauma and just keep working on that, then you will start to see larger and larger pieces, follow your accessions, follow your passions, and put the pieces together. And there's a bunch of pieces in here, there's a bunch of pieces on my website, and I'm not trying to say that it's like only advanced people can see this or something, but what I am saying is that that if you haven't seen it yet, how you do it is you start to put the pieces together. And I have in my backpack a box of index cards that are in five different colors and that

is a really good way to start brainstorming a ton of ideas. If anyone wants to talk with me online about this, I can give a lot more detail, step by step, but it's really hard to describe briefly. If someone else wants to ask another question, I'll talk more about that. So one of these horrible comments is a question. It seems like we're really familiar to when Jaron Lanier talks about the idea of being able to be paid for the creative work that you do online and have some sort of rewards and reputation systems. Can you speak up a bit? Sorry. Jaron Lanier talked about that you could, rather than just purely advertising models online, that you're creating content like you knows that are creating memes, could be rewarded that either in some capacity, it seems like very much in that regard.

It sounds like you are not a gadget. So I'm just curious if you're commenting on that. Yeah, what were the names you mentioned? Jared, you're kind of like, you have like, pretty dreadlocks, like one of the early VR guys. I'm not, unfortunately. We are at Exosphere, we're also partnering with Google and GoogleChain, etc. We're actually talking exactly about building a platform like this, people are paid for the quality of the content that they contribute. Like a global, we can talk more about that there. Yeah, there's a good paper like, shifting hands is like paper about moving from data. With the data you generate online, it's like capital to labor. But yeah, I'm speaking to that and

Holochain provides a lot of potentials for attaching business models to that idea. And yeah, this whole thing is about like how can we create a way of living, a way to make a living as an artist or as someone to create stuff. And then this raises the whole question of like, should I be paid similarly to someone farming for food? Who's actually like feeding people versus creating memes? It's a really problematic thing. I think we should put a lot of pressure on that question because it's really close to the core of should we feed everyone? And yes, we should. What was your question? So I am imagining this kind of post-capitalist future where I'm playing the game. I'm really enjoying myself, so thank you for my sort of premature onto boarding process.

Thank you. They're coming for you. Yeah. I'm all aware of this, right? Well, what I'm wondering is in this sort of like age of abundance where we're all playing this game together, What is, going back to the common thing you just made, what is my sort of incentive, assuming that I'm really good at what things I am, what's my incentive to sort of do anything else, right? If everyone's perception is similar to mine. Well, as a psychologist, I've studied intrinsic, I've actually studied motivation quite a bit, intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation, and the over-justification effect says that when you add extrinsic motivators to something that you were formerly doing for the joy of it, it usurps the actual intrinsic motivation. It kills your internal joy, depending on how

big the reinforcers are. So that's part of it, but... Let's see. Okay, so I think that being able to make memes for using money is not at the core. is part of the core... Easy is like work. Sure, yeah. Then you have people competing on making the best memes in their local community. And I also want to emphasize it's not just about memes, this is about playing all kinds of different games and inventing new different kinds of games. So jobs will become the same as games and they'll have a myth attached to them. So you'll be able to travel the world as an X, and it could be like Wizard, Warrior, Conjure, like these different, we play talks, these different things.

So jobs and game roles I think will become more and more fused. I don't think people are going to stop doing what they love in order to make memes just because it's a quick buck or something equivalent. And also these things are all contextualized in the community. Perhaps another way to look at that question, or to look at what you're saying, is that there might be a community of people who are producing the materials for other people to subsist, but that community could itself become more trafficked because there's a new set of rules and interesting game elements attached to it. that can become more important than the subsistence activity in and of itself, just like any part of a religion.

Yeah, all parts of the brain always take over, like any time this kind of function develops, it takes over the sky. Yeah? You made a quick reference to finite infinite games in the presentation. I just want to see where do you see that coming in here? Do you follow any of that stuff, any of the James Carr style? A bit. I don't know much about James Carr specifically, but I've read Finite and Infinite Games, and that's the author, right? Thank you. So yeah, I just read that one book by him, and also the whole Hello Teen team has been exposed to those ideas now, which is great. And I see the game, Xenogaming, as the infinite game. That's where I was seeing that. So how can we start to add a grammar and semantic engagement to infinite games that is intelligible as a finite game and an infinite game?

And that's the camouflage. Expanding on what you said. So the problem with capitalism is that it only achieves an infinite game status by causing immense destruction. That things have to, they go up paper to its company and it has to collapse. So, you seem to have a chain of finite games. And the question is, is this chain of finite games can it become an infinite game? I'm worried, how are you going to deal with people winning the game? Interesting. You can't win infinite games. Not an infinite game, you can win a finite game. Yeah, so this is one of the more difficult and interesting game design problems. Really the game is about designing the game for others, designing onboarding systems and interesting adventures.

Like you get a letter in the mail and it says, meet at this place, hide out in this bathroom for three hours and then someone will give you a secret message. And that message is invest in X or something like that. So it's about creating these games for others, but designing a game is not really as fun as playing it sometimes, like being the game master all the time. So part of it is once you complete a game, you often join the designers or helping to administer that game. And then another part of it is, yeah, you can't win the overall game. I'm not sure that the infinite game itself can be mechanized, but I'm working on that. I think if it could be mechanized, it wouldn't be an infinite game. No, I think maybe it can be. And it would coincide with the discovery of true intelligence that can be mechanized. So I'm working on a concept called the Haloxel,

which is a holographic pixel. And when that concept finishes that concept finishes formalizing itself through me and other researchers, we will have also that will coincide with Scepter, which is what Holochain is supposed to evolve into. So we'll have grammatic capacities that can be spoken by a decentralized computer and it might coincide with the ability to formalize an infinite game. I'm not totally sure, but I suspect that. I think you're reversed. I'll try a couple of ideas and see if they sound like, I don't know what you're thinking of. Werner Venge wrote Rainbow's End. Anyway, near future everyone sort of has these VR realities and choose what you, so everyone

organizes into these vast communities which participate in this and different VR experiences. So you basically choose one community or the other, and wherever you go, that's the sort of reality you see. This sounds kind of similar to what you're saying. And one of the blockchain-based ideas I'm going to throw you away is meme markets by Simon Deliboutier. I don't know if you're familiar with that. It's sort of like, again, you're trading memes, applying the idea of memes, and so it can be a means of coordinating people. It's similarly trippy to me in that sort of economics that just sort of merge out of communities themselves. I guess I'm just throwing these out because I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.

I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. I'm just trying to be honest. I'm sort of following my way there. So these sound like they're generally related or you sort of seem to be combining both of these and doing all sorts of interesting things with them. Yeah, definitely Meet Markets is here. Sorry, what was the first idea? These are the massive VR communities. Oh, yes. Yeah, and that's there as well. With the VR communities, the difference is it would actually start with grassroots very tiny games, which gradually coalesced into larger and larger bits. And then Meet Markets, you can see I was thinking about that. So Darkchain is actually the way that these small pieces gradually coalesce less as larger myth. So it's not like someone designing like, oh we need, you know, a villain,

we need a mythic world. It's actually discovering these pieces and how their affordances for plugging together, which then suggest a mythic interpretation, such as malls and zombies, which were in the original All Night of the Living Dead, or like how vampire myths so actually fit, like vampiric capitalists, that kind of thing. These tend to fit retroactively the structures that we're looking at. And if you want to also show the other stuff you want to... Okay, let's see. Yeah, so there's also... I should have shown this earlier because there's... Yeah, there's also... if you want to learn more about this, I would start with reading my team briefing in 2017. It was a two-year research project, the Transliminal Earth Alliance Meta-Narrative,

and it's a self-instructing decentralized activism movement. And this is at my website, andersambe.com. It's on the Uberow page. And then there's also, this is the second paper I would read, Rex plus Hello Chat, the ultimate chat paradigm. And this shows how the kind of dynamics of Polochan would create a fully flat, like, hyper-card based labor economy, or a kind of an autonomous labor economy, where the labor becomes able to seek its best executor. And here are some links. We've got internetschoolofmagic.com, coalitionofinvisiblecolleges.org, which is a directory for different meta organizations to link together. It's kind of just a prototype. Holomem, Twitter, I'm the admin of Sorcery of the Spectacle on Reddit.

And there's a hidden page on my website, finder.php, which has an example of a decentralized organizers finder. There's also holochain.org, our chat at chat.holochain.org. We also have a telegram, and holo.post and scepter.org, which is what Holochain is intended to evolve into. And there's some videos on my YouTube, which I don't have time for. This is the last one. So yeah, I'll take one or two more questions. I think you were first in the back. Oh, no, I had that. So previously, in past prior career, I was playing a zero-sum game that was very much oriented around extrinsic rewards. And it was a lot of imagery.

It was very much like very, very, very capitalist. So now thinking about this future world of abundance, where we have these shared mythologies with other people. That just seems really fun. Is that, and it seems much more around me than like this enjoyable shared experience. Am I on the right track of what I'm imagining this world looks like? Is this more fun than the movie? Yeah, it sounds way more fun. Yeah, I agree. And the key turning point will be when these stories from playing Harry Potter in the neighborhood to hacking things and then also calling yourself a wizard. So when we can reify these mythic roles as real life roles is when we can bring magic back into the world for the public.

And that is the point that I call the kitten wars, when we start to have weird public cultural battle over these definitions. You were first. Please correct me if I'm misrepresenting your views. But it seems to me that at least part of what you're getting at is that in order for us, for humans to have any meaning in the post-Clappist world, it needs to be one that we invent. Which seems to suggest that once we have abundance, that won't be enough for us. We'll need something else to give our lives meaning. Reality will no longer be meaningful enough. I just, it seems like, for one, I would strongly go against the idea that silly reality is not enough for people.

And then, too, I can see a huge rise if two people's, if two groups' myth-making go against each other. Like, this is, I mean, I don't want to call it a religious war, but, you know, if two people have entirely diametric, you know, belief systems that they create around because they need a belief system to create because, you know, the world isn't enough for them, which I guess isn't too crazy of an idea because people have created plenty of myths because reality isn't enough for them. But I see lots of strife. Like the Sunnis and the Shiites, the Muslims, they are based on a concept that one believes that a cousin was supposed to take over Islam and the other believes that nephew was supposed to take over Islam and they're both at each other's throats. So just to follow up on that, is it fractal imposterism?

is it being an imposter to an original concept, and then taking that concept of being an imposter to that original imposter, right, and then just infinitely doing impostors, impostors of impostors. Is that how you sustain holiday change? That might be a way to look at it. I'd have to talk more about this idea fractal imposterism. But how do you prevent religious war? First of all, I think that yes, lack of meaning in life is a real existential threat and this is why people get so absorbed in things like Netflix and fantasy world and all of these things.

Some people to escape, they don't have enough. And some people once they have enough to escape the boredom that they don't have any meaningful actions. So like action and meaning I think are closely related and creating meaningful actions. And then what was the second half of your question? I always forget the other half. but if we decide that we're going to create a role for us to care ourselves meaning and people's worldviews that they accept are different. Cool, okay, so actually this is something that I think if there's like one thing that's like genuinely new or special that's coming out of this whole movement it's that it's eventually consistent nipping. So the whole thing is about contagion and counter contagion and if you're trying to mimic something or

to simulate something, you end up taking it in and creating rhizomatic connections that create massive spread and contagion of ideas. And part of the trick here is doing it without homogenization, but I think that these types of bully wars are actually going to become less and less common as it becomes more inescapable to also know your opponent's point of view. Just a quick interjection, so the people who do want to take a break, feel free to do that. are already past quarter past so that we can still continue to pay questions inconsequential yeah I mean so it's interesting that if this needs a new she has a fight and one that's an example of a pirate game and one day with all the she has

what an island is and you have the series. The next preceding game would be like a resurrection game. But they find the physical space. The environment is correct. So this is an inconsequential holy wars. Yes. So I'm going to start by you're intending to create games for the sake of seeking meaning, but is there actually actually approach social agenda in terms of physical space. A lot of capitalism problems still achieve social value in that process. Simply playing games simply burns energy. Yeah, this is a fantastic question. Yeah, and absolutely I have an explicit, it's not, I'm not going to try and put out my activist agenda

for everyone, but I personally have explicit things I want to do in activism. Although I'm actually kind of trying to form Zeno and Holo as like two things that are intricately mapped so I want to have a mythic component to different types of activism and then create those ties more and more strongly. It's explicitly trying to help people and the manner in which it helps people is replicated abundance and so I see this as Holo Salesforce. Once we actually have Holochain and the Holo marketplace of some kind, like something like Amazon, except to be a bunch of little Amazons hooked together in one interface, then having if you have like a small kickback for people who install this on someone's new computer or do that, all that money that corporations are siphoning off for their profits gets to go to the people

who are spreading this to the edges and those are the gamers, those are the deckers who have their decks of interesting games and upgrades who invite you to weird parties. Yeah, so that sounds beautiful and it's exciting. I want to dig deeper on the sort of the world view issue. So we talked about the Sunni and Shia. I mean, another company example where memes played out in terms of diametrical was the recent US election. And that was one where I think you could potentially make a case that there's an optimistic narrative there. But there's a lot of people who would say that's a very negative experience in the American story. I'm curious to your thought, because it seems like, I mean, that's where people are creating memes and there are consequences to like people having different

worldviews and like throwing them at each other in ways that wasn't possible before and being connected as you have today. Yeah, I agree. The Trump story is extremely dichotical and you can interpret it as the easy way which is super abysmal, horrible American politics that's never been as bad. or you can interpret it to 4chan way, which is anonymous as, what's it called, rated, trolled, there's a third word that's better, when you overbill polls. Like 4chan rated the Time Magazine person of the year poll, and they got Moot, the creator of 4chan, as the number one on the slot from voting. But Time Magazine was smart enough to redo its poll when they did that. But when the anonymous movement trolled the US election and got a fake candidate into office, the US government did not have the security measures in place to prevent this

type of hacking of its system. So basically in my point of view, or like the weird point of view, the non mainstream point of view, 4chan has, or anonymous rather, has like taken over the United States effectively. And that could be seen as something positive. But in the short term obviously quite negative for a lot of people. So would this just enable more of that? Would this kind of Holochain, would that just enable more? Yes, but in a highly coordinated fashion. Like the reason we got stuck with someone like Trump is that there's not actually a decision making mechanism to choose a good candidate. It exists. But with Holochain, we can start to build alternative, really complex, rich tools for reputation and for choosing candidacy. Or it could be with other platforms too.

but if they actually create these tools to make the collective intelligence more expressive in what it can express, then I think that people will use those tools to do more complex things than Donald Trump. Maybe one or two more questions? I think there is one over the top. No? Okay, cool. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'd love to talk with anybody interested in this. Thank you.