No, no, undivided, outside one, for you, life is drowning. You said dead. No more numerous under one. You part through depths swirling. No more half hidden within one.
You submerge all forgetting No more Hi everyone, today we are in the Ghost Lammers of Madagascar podcast. I am Eduardo. And I am Erika. And we are talking from Brazil. and today we're going to continue our second episode. Today is a very cool day in Curitiba, Brazil,
and we're going to still talk about the CCRU, Cybernetic Cultural Research Unit. On the last episode, we've talked mainly about William Burroughs, about how art and certain practices and rights could try to break away from the linearity of time and we talked much about the conspiracy theory and kind of horror literature that there are in the first two parts of the CCRU books but now we're at the third part this part seems to build off on the concept of one god universe that we commented in the last time in CCRU's writing the One God universe is a kind
of principle that tries to control time and put time in a linear order and Burroughs is someone that is seen as an agent of Lemurian time wire of someone that tries to disrupt this order of time the final section of what we talked about was the Cthulhu Club which they mainly dealt with a kind of esoteric scholars trying to study the the body of work by Lovecraft and still trying to ally science to it but here we have then the third part the third part of the book is called AOE axis the magic machine AOE is then architectonic order of Eschaton it's a sort
of secret occultist society which always is trying to disrupt the Lemurian influence so someone as burrows or the CCIU itself which seems a kind of agent to try to break away time to try to bring the anomalies of time in the forefront to try to dismantle this kind of orders. The Architetonic Order of Eschaton is a sort of institution that tries to hold time and that are based on the idea of fear, on the idea of Christianity, on the monopoly of Microsoft software and also they are deeply related with the idea of the Y2K of the year 2000
which was at the time interpreted as a time which would happen a breakdown on the internet so the CCIU tries to bring this kind of almost religious and conspiracy kind of perspective to the question of Y2K. The architectonic order of Eschaton is based on platonic ideals, on metaphysical ideas, on the way to try to make a kind of meta myth which is always spreading logics of command, codes of command and they are divided in an order of radiations we will see from now
on ten numbers and other deeper meanings will be very important to the CCRU the architectonic order of eschaton is divided then in order of radiations they are five transcendental radiations and there are there is an hierarchy at them when you reach five you're at the lowest hierarchy when you are at the one you're at the upper one so there's almost this idea of this essence which can't be usually be contacted with because it's very hidden and there is the radiation of this essence which is gonna manifest itself as these agents of a sort of
ascetic religion of Christian and conservative ideals as they were described by the CCRU and we start with Ecumenon. Ecumenon is the first pylon we're gonna see that pylons they're gonna make a sort of figure they are highly linked with the one God universe and they are working with the idea of memories and dreams we have Atlantis Atlantis is gonna be the sort of oppositional side to Lemuria they are like this fourth tier of the division and the second pylon the one of Genesis or creative influence the doctrine of Atlantis is then controlled by five pairs of twins we're going to see that
the idea of twins or the double and duplications is gonna be present in in many other aspects of this theory and then they go and say that the christian cross is actually based on atlantis cross and this cross is a diagram of five points this diagram is going to be very important because there will be a sort of game which came out of it which work in the cross shape with groups of five cards so then again you have the idea of the twin then this is here you go detailing each of these orders and probably the most
important one it's gonna be axis which is third pylon because axis is here a sort of AI which controls and regulates the world. Access is the sort of archive which has all of humanity's knowledge stored and which is always trying to control and manipulate information. Access is also described in the in the part 3 glossaries as the ultimate development of capitalism, as pure capitalism working to regulate and spread and control information through
the world. We will see that Axis is one of the most important figures here because it kind of it will come back, Nick Land's writing on the Fenga Numena, especially in the text meltdown which is about the time simulation so accesses this idea of artificial intelligence which is capable of regulating and controlling the world in a way that non-human could we will share these these images as well because you have then two diagrams which explain the Atlantean cross they will show how each of these orders is displaced visually and how this is related to idea of the cross and then
they describe based on this diagram how you can play decadence decadence is compared to Tarot and it's also compared to Osiris Osiris the the Egyptian god which is drowned and also the hanged man card in Tarot so they will try to bring this sort of game that is an Oracle you're gonna play with two sets of cards there is a very good software that if you search Decadence CCRU on your browser you're gonna find you can play it online very easily but the interesting idea it's that here you have basic ideas of subtraction and addition that we
worked with numbers and each number is gonna give you a demon which is then what we will get on our next part the last thing that it really amazed me of this part is the flat lines text which is along with the swollen footnotes which kind of expand upon the text but the axis test is all centered on the sort of axis character and axis is seen as this conscious this technology which gains self-aware becomes self-aware and it tries to regulate everything and it
makes this time travel as it is traveling the CCIU ties the development of axis with Oedipus so I feel they're sort of showing how myths can work retroactively and they also are pointing constantly how there is a similarity to the structure of cybernetics and the structure of Greek tragedy there is a certain part which says that Oedipus only is capable of reaching his destiny because his belief that he is in the control of the situation, his own situation is in control, he is handling completely his destiny,
and it's because he believes that, that he ends up falling prey to destiny. And this kind of feedback, this kind of cycle that happens with time, which happens when you discover who Zoedipus really is, that has this recursional effect. The recursional effect is worked completely on the flat lines text as you see a sort of recursion through parenthesis and you feel like you're seeing the controls in a programmed or controlled platform of a machine. And you're seeing these controls of axes and it's going back to time, it's establishing reason in Greece, it's accompanying Oedipus.
sphinx is a very interesting character because it is seen as this anomaly it's the biocosmic memory of the earth, Belize, Dondelez, Zeguathari, it's a sort of entity which exists before the humans exist so the sphinx is always disturbing how the axis works it's always disrupting everything that happens and you have these two elements playing at each other in this sort of computational language. While you were talking about the Arquitetonic Order of Scateon and the Atlantean Cross, it is important to remember that we are dealing with a war here.
When we look at the Atlantean Cross, it is impossible not to compare with another numerical order created by the Lemurians through CCIU, the decimal labyrinth. Both structures have something in common, they both derive from five numbers. Are they some sort of twins? I wonder if the war between them was also placed in these two numograms. How do you feel about this connection, Eduardo? Yeah, the numogram, it's very simple in how it works, right? We were talking about this before recording, how it is a very simple idea of subtraction and addition, but still it has this visual thing
which is very compelling, right? You look at it and it seems very complex and very dense and very hard to grasp, and it's a decover, I think it's probably one of the most famous things produced by the CCRU, this graphic, because it has this specificity very strong of it on how the numbers are placed and the relations of the arrows with these spheres, but I certainly think there is a parallel between the architectonic order of escaton or aoe as they call it and the own proposal by the lemurians or the ccru because you have these two graphs this can't be only a
coincidence they are always talking about pairs and about twins and then you have these two ways of working with numbers which they also talked and are no sequitian ways to work with numbers right Erica to take them out of their ordinal logic. I will go a little bit further and reach the part 5 of the text and try to explain what was the origin of that numagram or the decimal labyrinth. I will tell the story of Daniel Parker. He was a professor of an organic semiotics at Kingston College, MVU, since 1992. He met CCRU and the text he presented there is a transcript
of that conversation. He was researching about the relations between intelligent communication and complex patterns derived from non-intelligent sources, or what he'll call TIC systems. He wanted to find in life how specific systems had its own complex patterns and how would be possible to quantify a disorganized multiplicity. For this, he thought it would be necessary to release the numbers from their metrical functions, so they are freed to be other things and tend to become diagrammatic, a shared numeracy prior to any inception into chronological structure, in the words of the professor. The challenge was given. He wanted to create
a sequence based on its own logic, independent of the numerical chronological time. The first impression I had when I got in contact with the diagram was the number were more like a full image rather than just numbers. He chose the decimal numbers from 0 to 9 and treat them as some twins For example, 0 plus 9 is equal 9, 1 plus 8 is equal 9, 2 plus 7 equal 9, 3 plus 6 equal 9, 4 plus 5 equal 9. According to this operation of principle of decimal twinning, the professor created the Barker spiral.
As he says, of arrows, the channels and the chains. It is organized based on the operations of sums and subtractions. I will try to explain but the full diagram is possible to find at the index page at CCRU.net. The numerons 0 to 9 are separated by pairs. Each sum is 9 and each subtraction leads
to another number for example 8 minus 1 points to 7 this subtraction I arrows fluxes is called chains the other fluxes called channels is draw from the sum of other numbers from which it comes out for example 15 leaves the number 5 and And it's the result of the sum of 5 plus 4 plus 3 plus 2 plus 1 plus 0. And it directs to the number 6 since 5 plus 1 is 6. Each number represents a zone, a system and a demon.
While we were playing the Decadence game, we would check our numbers, our scores in fact, and their correlated demons at the Pandemon oracle. We recommend you try playing Decadence, it's very interesting reading about the zones. There's very extensive material on each zone and demon and what it might represent. but there is a thing here that it's the ritual and we see the magical aspect in a sort of ritual or practice. They are linking this with the idea of a game, but it also, it's not any game,
it's a game that it works, it might work in a cross shape, so there is an obvious intention to it, and it's a game that is gonna call demons it's gonna summon demons and you have the pandemonium matrix which is this page at the ccru.net site where you have the explanation from each score that you take so it's a sort of breed of lemurian time sorcery with the proposals of the architectonic order of Escafant. We are not sure how these relations between these two factions work, they are always at war but they always seem to be doubling each
other but I really like the idea of playing with chance and this system which is not... it's a nonlinear system which is very simple, right? This is what we mentioned before, it's only summing up numbers or it's only addition and in and or subtraction so you have very simple operations with cards but these have the idea of let's make an assistant that breaks out of this linearity assistant that lets you play with chance yeah and if we count here there is 44 different types of demons so it seems that it's very simple game in
simple simple orders but very complex content and we still trying to understand all the meanings of every number and every detail because it's huge yeah it's such a big universe I feel right now we are at the we're at the end of part 3 and you we still have part 4, part 5, part 6, part 7, part 8 so we're not even at the half of the book but there is such a deep and extensive mythology which is at least interesting yeah I like that the sort of backdrop
always from the first horror stories, tales of the first part and went into a more cyber-religious thing which was very interesting to read but it was kind of dense at the start as well. I felt that some of the parts at the beginning were difficult to get into but from the middle of the part on some of the things start to fall more closely. I am very intrigued by the fact that they do want to create an entire narrative of full civilization, demons, avatars, but they also have the need to be attached to our Western
civilization, especially when they bring the Christian point of view, considering the fact that the representation of Christianality is the enemy of the Lemurians, right? Yes, they have this proposal which has a lot of creative things inside of it, a lot of fictions, but I feel they are always fictions that try to bring this another dimension of reality, right? there, I think they are emphasizing how much fiction influences the world and how these things might work in a much more abstract and diverse way than we think. But I really like that they brought
Christianity at the forefront. The end of this section is with a very unorthodox minister, Anglican minister which sort of tries to relate the the writers of Mazoc with Christianity so he's trying to show a very moralizing fatalistic view and he he ends up being found the dead he's found dead and they don't know who killed him but you have this idea of the also the heretics and the iconoclast figures that you have in religion as well. You have so many sections
inside of Christianity and some of them are highly critical of many things which could be considered as capitalism or any contemporary vice. They are sometimes self-critical, so I thought it was a very curious note to end on. Just remember, the concepts of theoretical fiction and superstition explained in the last episode are fundamentals to build all these narratives here. If you haven't heard yet, please check our first episode. Yeah, they're completely tied to this. It's a sort of theory that's always switching between working with straight-to-leaf concepts and then jumping into these sort of scenes and bits of text.
The structure is really similar to Burroughs' books. It gets clearer to me reading it that the almost sort of collage appearance that you have in the references and in some scenes that just pop on the text are really close to Burroughs' writing. so I felt this connection deeper this time it became clearer to me and it yeah they are completely working with these two planes but they are so ambiguous right I like this the ambiguity you reach a point where there's no distinction maybe and between these ideas the hyperstitial practices and what the word is it gets harder to separate these two. I had this impression.
Okay, so we will talk about the ZigZee. That was a project developed by Orphan Drift and the CCRU for Beaconsfield Arts London and founded by the Arts Council of England in 1999. The Decimal Labyrinth was one of the works presented there by CCIU. Orphan Drift produced all the visual aesthetics, but there were also other collaborators like Physical Performance, Traxis, The Sound, BioCausey, Apache 61 and Dmitry Nackoff.
CCRU also commissioned live audios by Doc Woshun and Code 9. That was the time when they could materialize all the theoretical and philosophical imagination. While CCRU came with the numagram explaining the Lemurian time sorcery map, Orphan Drift constructed this universe by evoking demons or avatars as they nominated sounds, images, collages and videos. For me, it was a very relieved. I was very relieved when I was able to see what was created and I feel really curious about these sounds, these very mysterious sounds
and very mysterious image that really made me feel like something was hiding and I was just able to see part of that. I will keep going and talk about one of the five video performances available on Orphan Drift website. They represent avatars and one of them really got my attention because I got a feeling of what was the event or even maybe I got closer to understand. This one was performed by Natasha de Meret, Holly Devery and Eleni Thomas. The avatars, they have like a human-based body
but they try to avoid it a little bit with a long hand body extensions and some sort of liquid over their body. They moved through the space, interacting with the image projection over them. The projection also gave me this twin aspect, and sometimes I would feel like there were six instead of three. This reminds me the need of creating a duplicity body into the whole story. For this project, 5 avatars were represented in collages and installations. Considering the nomogram, 5 plus 4 was the Katak Demon, 6 plus 3 was the Jinx or the
SPLCE, 7 plus 2 was the Odub or XES, 8 plus 1 was the Murmur Demon and 9 plus 0 was the UTUN or IIS. In this work it's possible to inhabit a sort of maritime atmosphere. When I look at the installation photographs I see some remains of life with some body parts and fluids. For me this material choice reinforced the need to create a true body. It reminds me of our Brazilian artist Tunga. He created many installations with the purpose of building a phantasmatic space between body and psyche.
This space obeys to singular temporality and spatiality, dominated by erotic and unconscious combinations. Yesterday you said there was this sort of tone of dada and surrealism, right? I also agree they do, especially because the collage was their principal methodology. Besides the installation and collages, there were also presented one publication, or warped version of graphic novels, as they called Meshed Catacomic, and it included the five avatars and some texts of the CCRU. Yes, we highly recommend that you check the site, orphanedriftarchive.com,
because there is an immense amount of material which is highly related to the CCRU's own research. I think we talked briefly about Orphan Drift in the first episode, but they were a sort of proto-CCRU group, a group of two people who were art students and learned kind of latched onto them and became this kind of consultor for the research that they were interested in developing. And here at CGG, we have the best example of what is this collaboration. And Eduardo, how was for you this relation with the works, especially the visual ones?
I really liked to have a visualization of it. It was very interesting because we have all these densely packed stories and themes and characters and this event embodies all these intentions in one place. but I really like this aspect that you brought up about Tunga and there is this tension on they're dealing with images and fragments but still they're obviously building a body, right? It's a little bit of an assemblage with many different objects being placed in a specific way on the space and even with this they are capable of giving the idea of a body or a map, right? looking at Murmur, which is mostly a blue group of images, it seems very similar to the shape of a map.
So I like how they can construct these different visualizations of the demons. And this idea of the avatar itself, I think it's very clever, because you have avatar in every digital platform and you still have this idea of the avatar as a sort of entity so i really like seeing it and i really like seeing the installations being this sort of scenery for the for the performances and you have the sound and the projection the projection at the same time so you have all the sort of experimental ways of dealing with language trying to get together to really build the sense of a sort of ritual or a sort of thing which creates a higher
aesthetic effect by having like projection and music and the music is highly linked with the demons, the avatars, you create a sort of mood and we talked a lot about the way that it's recorded with TV cameras. So you have this sort of phantasmatic image as well. It's something really noisy and the contours are blurred. So I think that everything gives this really almost spiritual visualization of it. Yes, and there is also this texture. Everything has many layers of texture and And this is still a reference for us, right?
So today we're still finding this reference, this collage. So Eduardo, what do you think if you share a little bit of the sound production? Yes, I think it's a good idea because music was a really important part of that event. They worked with live mixing and they had audios especially commissioned for this. So I think it's a good thing if everyone could hear and accept of it. To our end part, we will share a fragment of the NOMU engineered by Catasonic and Code 9. And this part is called SYNC 5.4 and 8.1.
And if you remember, those avatars are Catac and Mumor. And this fragment is very special because it sounds like speaking tones, kind of feeling, and I think you're going to like us, we like it. So, would you like to say something else to advise you? Yeah, I hope everyone also enjoys this piece of music, of sound, and I hope we have everyone with us on the next episode. Thank you for listening to us today. This was a little bit of the third part of the CCRU book. A little, some commentary on the numogram,
which might be one of the most striking things that came out of the CCRU, and their relationship with Orphan Drift, which especially is significant for us as artists to see how art can play a part in this, how this can be incorporated on an exhibition space or a cultural event. So thank you for coming and listening. I am a black hole. I am a black hole. I am a black hole. I am a black hole.
I am a black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. I am black hole. Catacus. Catacus. Catacus. Catacus.